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Friday, August 10, 2018
Community Question Quest #28 Emulation of Video Games
Community Question Quest #28Emulation of Video Games What is your thoughts on Emulating video games? Why do you emulate them?Do you agree with the removal of roms from certain websites by Nintendo?
I believe that ROMs should be distributed at their current state. No one's going to go searching for a real copy of a NDS Pokemon game or an N64 Donkey Kong game unless they're a collector, a reviewer, or get a serious case of nostalgia boner. ROMs fill that need for an old, antique game without having to go to some shady trade shop where all the shopkeepers have that weird wispy bit of beard on them. Besides, Nintendo already made their expected revenue out of almost all of them, a few thousand bucks pinched isn't going to hurt their current money.
many old games would be lost forever without emulation, old games wouldn't be able to be played in new ways with mods (like ocarina of time in vr) and opens the market of those games to be played in places they can't officially be bought in. also if the games and systems aren't available for sale anymore, then the only way to play them anymore is through emulation.
I won't argue that distributing and downloading ROMs of games you don't own are legal. But I will say that Nintendo are very user-hostile, more than any other publisher / developer. They have also ordered DMCA strikes against YouTubers for using their games' music, for example, which almost no other gaming company does.
Marcus Lee yeah I remember when they started doing that to YouTubers all they did was create a bunch of Nintendo youtubers who over praise Nintendo and youtubers that just outright hate them.
There are two sides to this. First of all I would like to say that emulating games can benefit alot of players because it can preserve games that are no longer in production or accessible to be played. Especially when it comes to arcade games. Not many of us owned arcade games. Now the other part, game roms are still owned by their respectful companies. A company still has the right to request removal as they seem fit. It's really no different than a piece of music or tv show that was made in the early 70's or 80's. Someone still owns them. Whether they wish to part with them or not is really up to the owner. But there are some companies or owners who probably have no interest in their intellectual property or deem it not profit worthy but wish to preserve or have users experience these "once upon a time masteries" but as for Nintendo, it is their property and as much I wish they didn't go that route on removing their roms from the sites, it is what it is and not much we can really do about it unless Nintendo changes their stance.
Nathaniel Clay Depends on the age of a game. If it's old as hell like Super Mario Bros then it's fine. If it's something that is easily obtainable or even still selling copies like Persona 5 then I think it's not a good idea.
Amber Short Yeah you are very correct they have every right to remove those roms as its there property, howver I just wish personally they'd allow us to purchase the games easier, i mean i paid for Paper Mario 64 2 time on the Wii then the Wii U, I had to rebuy that game, when my Wii U stopped working I just got pissed and emulated it.
If you will not sell your product, do not deny us the right to use the product on the ROM site. Of Nintendo wants money from it, they can put it up on the 3DS or Switch store as a virtual console. But at this point, they're sitting on these things, which does not give them or deny them any revenue.
It takes forever to enter the public domain, but there should be a reasonable and broadly acknowledged age cutoff after which preservation via emulation sites becomes acceptable. Maybe 20 years or something?
Justin Reeve i would argue around 15 years. That be around thrice the lifespan of the original console, for which case most of them may either not exist or become so rare they become enthusiast priced.
Easy. When Nintendo states that they can't release all retro games because (in easy to understand terms) the companies who own them are unreachable, they won't allow it to be released digitally, or even licensing issues... leads me to believe those games aren't entirely theirs.... so let the go@#amn actual publishers pick each game out they don't want distributed themselves since Nintendo doesn't even have access to them. Not the whole frickin site. We can't buy these games and if we happen to find a copy "oh sure... that'll be $8,765 please" just my opinion though... oh and I love emulating games... especially ones that aren't available and remade games (hacks) etc.
The worst part of it is that Nintendo doing this is effecting just their own games but whole sites are going down because of this. The real shame of it when we lose access to the ROMs for things like arcade machines, which is the only true way to preserve that era of gaming.
"THEY'RE RUINING GAME PRESERVATION REEEEEEE" This is such a stupid fucking argument point. They aren't ruining game presentation because news flash idiots, the original hardware still exists. "But what if all the consoles stop working due to age?" Well that's what companies like Hyperkin are for, to solve that problem and sometimes make it even better with HD upscaling. Not to mention, Nintendo has released a lot of their most popular games (ie the ones most people will emulate) on newer hardware. Yes you have to pay, but it's not like it's stupid expensive. I have no problem with emulating 30 year old games, but don't act like it's for "game preservation" when there are so many other ways to play, and preserve, the games, just not for free.
One point I can see, however is arcade games, as Nintendo and other companies have never rereleased them anywhere else, except maybe for some anniversary but they're few and far between.
Wyatt Mason Good point. Companies like Hyperkin and Retro-bit are legal because they selling an emulator that doesn't infringe on IPs. There's a right way to do emulation and a wrong way. Some of these Rom sites are doing it the wrong way.
jeff andi especially because you have to actually own the game in order to "emulate", which the only thing they're emulating is the hardware. Like I said, I don't have a problem with people emulating games, just the excuse it's for game preservation.
Wyatt Mason I agree. Emulators are 100% legal. It's just the unauthorized distribution of the roms in original form that not.
It has nothing to do with game preservation nor any moral point. It's people whining because they want free shit and don't realize that it's a business.
Roms are wondering i use them from time to time and i believe someone said it's not illegal to use roms. I get why Nintendo is having them taken down but depending how old it is they can't make money off it. If it's a rom of a game they still sell i'd buy it first before i would try to get the rom. Keeping the history and art form alive and people who play the rom my end up buying the real copy of the game.
jeff andi 99% of the games people emulate are games nobody would purchase again. And if they do and play them on it's original system the gaming companies aren't making money because they are buying used games. My library has 1600+ games. But I still like emulators. On PC or a good mobile platform many run better with enhanced graphics, save/states, frame rate adjustment, texture adjustment, and more.
And it's way too late for Nintendo or any of the other Developers and publishers to do much about ROMs being distributed on the internet. If you look hard enough you will always be able to find them. Pandora has been out of her box for a long time now. It's way too late.
John Ardissonne but haven't these sites been around practically forever? If they actually were being greedy, they would have gone on their crusade much earlier. Something smells fishy here and it ain't CoD.
Dante Xacscoigne Possibly fear, they know the Switch isn't going to have a large classic game library and they have 2 retro consoles on the market that sell over 2 million copies. They don't want people to see that alternative and not buy from them. Understandable and risky as taking something away from people drives up its demand.
CryingWithRage well i'm finding it very difficult to fight anything solo without using a bow to keep my distance. Almost every time i try to fight with a melee weapon i lose, but going ranged only is just really dull for me.
Besides, i like comraderie. It's just something about playing together with other people that i just can't get by myself.
CryingWithRage it's easy to hit weak spots when you know what they are. Me, i just swing at either the legs, the gut or the tail. Depending on how big they are.
The only thing i saw people complaining about with the PC port was the mouse accel, connection issue and such, but most people make things a much bigger deal than they actually are. (Bitching about 30fps in a port from PSP of Final Fantasy Type 0......... Honestly.)
Dante Xacscoigne They surprisingly won't do that. Nintendo likes to use this old philosophy of spending less and getting more. They don't want to have to spend more to make a product better so they slowly implement stuff as a console progresses. Nintendo also has a very small development team and has strict hiring practices, so it will be a long time before we have the team of engineers to make something like a large library possible.
Basically they're being hardheaded morons. Fine by me.
This is a fight they just can't win, no matter how hard they try. These sites are like cockroaches. Kill one, and you find 30 more underneath the couch.
I have been trying to mess around with emulators and its actually a pain in the ass. I have pcsx2, dolphin, pj 64 and visual boy advanced. honestly I'm not very good with pc and they are not user friendly. I have been to several sites to download roms only a couple will work. most links are dead... definitely the ones I want at least. sometimes ill download a game and its like 1.5 gb which is fine but then the emulator wont recognize it. I download the legend of the dragoon ps1 game which was 4 parts and then it said I needed a zip folder program. I already had a zip program but I downloaded another and tried to combine the files to no avail. so far I got conkers bad fur day and ff tactics to work lol. when I say work I mean wonky ass little screens that if I change the graphics and resolutions on will never match my pc completely and the controls suck. I wanted windwaker and shadow the hedgehog... obviously Nintendo has put a stop to most mainstream downloads. after windows defender and avast have saved my pc several times. I'm very wary when looking for roms. the Microsoft store free games run smoothly lol. so yeah I could use some technical advice. I called my brother who is a IT for a big company and he said that most emus and roms can be loaded with extra programs and virus. he said I should stick to my ps4... I'm inclined to agree.
Derek Sanson if there's 2 emulators that give me the most issues is Project 64 and PSX. Project 64 used to be a extremely great emulator. But the development of it has stopped so it's really unstable. PCSX2 is still in development, but isn't compatible with many GPU's.
Derek Sanson Google whatever system it is and put fullest roms, so Nintendo full set rom download. Finding roms without installing exe software is bad at this point. So yeah most full sets I get are from torrent sites...
Nathaniel Clay I have tried emuparadise and coolroms freeroms and psxroms and similar sites... I'm pretty sure I have a virus lol I'm downloading avg free per my bros advice. I think I picked a bad time to get into roms
Maybe we wouldn't have to emulate games if business reasons didn't leave them dead with no chance of a rerelease/remaster/remake (Fate/Unlimited Codes and Megaman X Command Mission). That and JP only games being unplayable otherwise (Mother 3). Honestly, if the companies responsible for the games are no longer making money off of them, I see no issue with emulating them. It doesn't hurt them, and it sure beats searching online for an overpriced copy that may not work (or that you don't own the system for and see no purpose in purchasing).
Loveroms is a nice site to get them but i can't say for sure they will all work since i have not tried all but i know some did not for me. But does any one know how to get a controller to work with a rom ?
Gawble's Entertainment Depends on the emulator. I know Dolphin can recognize an GCN Adapter automatically (from what I've read at least), and I think any other controller just requires you to have so way to connect it to your computer, then remap the buttons onto it.
I believe that ROMs should be distributed at their current state. No one's going to go searching for a real copy of a NDS Pokemon game or an N64 Donkey Kong game unless they're a collector, a reviewer, or get a serious case of nostalgia boner. ROMs fill that need for an old, antique game without having to go to some shady trade shop where all the shopkeepers have that weird wispy bit of beard on them. Besides, Nintendo already made their expected revenue out of almost all of them, a few thousand bucks pinched isn't going to hurt their current money.
ReplyDeleteas long as the game is like 20 or 15 years old? I see no problem with it.
ReplyDeleteBrainwave 101 same here, In my opinion removing roms hurt preservation
ReplyDeletemany old games would be lost forever without emulation, old games wouldn't be able to be played in new ways with mods (like ocarina of time in vr) and opens the market of those games to be played in places they can't officially be bought in. also if the games and systems aren't available for sale anymore, then the only way to play them anymore is through emulation.
ReplyDeleteI won't argue that distributing and downloading ROMs of games you don't own are legal. But I will say that Nintendo are very user-hostile, more than any other publisher / developer. They have also ordered DMCA strikes against YouTubers for using their games' music, for example, which almost no other gaming company does.
ReplyDeleteMarcus Lee yeah I remember when they started doing that to YouTubers all they did was create a bunch of Nintendo youtubers who over praise Nintendo and youtubers that just outright hate them.
ReplyDeleteThere are two sides to this. First of all I would like to say that emulating games can benefit alot of players because it can preserve games that are no longer in production or accessible to be played. Especially when it comes to arcade games. Not many of us owned arcade games.
ReplyDeleteNow the other part, game roms are still owned by their respectful companies. A company still has the right to request removal as they seem fit. It's really no different than a piece of music or tv show that was made in the early 70's or 80's. Someone still owns them. Whether they wish to part with them or not is really up to the owner.
But there are some companies or owners who probably have no interest in their intellectual property or deem it not profit worthy but wish to preserve or have users experience these "once upon a time masteries" but as for Nintendo, it is their property and as much I wish they didn't go that route on removing their roms from the sites, it is what it is and not much we can really do about it unless Nintendo changes their stance.
Speaking of emulators, here's a site for PS1 emulation. ps1fun.com - PS1FUN Play Retro Playstation PSX games online.
ReplyDeleteNathaniel Clay Depends on the age of a game. If it's old as hell like Super Mario Bros then it's fine. If it's something that is easily obtainable or even still selling copies like Persona 5 then I think it's not a good idea.
ReplyDeleteCryingWithRage I agree with you lol, but Persona 5 isn't a rom YET persay
ReplyDeleteAmber Short Yeah you are very correct they have every right to remove those roms as its there property, howver I just wish personally they'd allow us to purchase the games easier, i mean i paid for Paper Mario 64 2 time on the Wii then the Wii U, I had to rebuy that game, when my Wii U stopped working I just got pissed and emulated it.
ReplyDeleteNo, i do not agree with it.
ReplyDeleteIf you will not sell your product, do not deny us the right to use the product on the ROM site. Of Nintendo wants money from it, they can put it up on the 3DS or Switch store as a virtual console. But at this point, they're sitting on these things, which does not give them or deny them any revenue.
It takes forever to enter the public domain, but there should be a reasonable and broadly acknowledged age cutoff after which preservation via emulation sites becomes acceptable. Maybe 20 years or something?
ReplyDeleteJustin Reeve i would argue around 15 years. That be around thrice the lifespan of the original console, for which case most of them may either not exist or become so rare they become enthusiast priced.
ReplyDeleteI'm fine with emulators. Just don't profit from them if you don't want it to cause a shit storm.
ReplyDeleteEasy. When Nintendo states that they can't release all retro games because (in easy to understand terms) the companies who own them are unreachable, they won't allow it to be released digitally, or even licensing issues... leads me to believe those games aren't entirely theirs.... so let the go@#amn actual publishers pick each game out they don't want distributed themselves since Nintendo doesn't even have access to them. Not the whole frickin site. We can't buy these games and if we happen to find a copy "oh sure... that'll be $8,765 please" just my opinion though... oh and I love emulating games... especially ones that aren't available and remade games (hacks) etc.
ReplyDeleteThe worst part of it is that Nintendo doing this is effecting just their own games but whole sites are going down because of this. The real shame of it when we lose access to the ROMs for things like arcade machines, which is the only true way to preserve that era of gaming.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.pcworld.com/article/3296479/gaming/nintendo-suit-rom-emulation-game-preservation.html
ReplyDeletepcworld.com - Nintendo's ridiculous war on ROMs threatens gaming history
https://plus.google.com/100632797398859232873/posts/aJ9bPWULoZ9
ReplyDeleteplus.google.com - IN A NUTSHELL I am posting this in response to +Andy Herche earlier post. ht...
https://plus.google.com/+EdwardTreuC/posts/5QJRWFb2ugf
ReplyDeleteplus.google.com - Why Nintendo Will Never Defeat Retro Gamers - The past few weeks have been pr...
"THEY'RE RUINING GAME PRESERVATION REEEEEEE" This is such a stupid fucking argument point. They aren't ruining game presentation because news flash idiots, the original hardware still exists. "But what if all the consoles stop working due to age?" Well that's what companies like Hyperkin are for, to solve that problem and sometimes make it even better with HD upscaling. Not to mention, Nintendo has released a lot of their most popular games (ie the ones most people will emulate) on newer hardware. Yes you have to pay, but it's not like it's stupid expensive. I have no problem with emulating 30 year old games, but don't act like it's for "game preservation" when there are so many other ways to play, and preserve, the games, just not for free.
ReplyDeleteOne point I can see, however is arcade games, as Nintendo and other companies have never rereleased them anywhere else, except maybe for some anniversary but they're few and far between.
ReplyDeleteWyatt Mason Good point. Companies like Hyperkin and Retro-bit are legal because they selling an emulator that doesn't infringe on IPs. There's a right way to do emulation and a wrong way. Some of these Rom sites are doing it the wrong way.
ReplyDeletejeff andi especially because you have to actually own the game in order to "emulate", which the only thing they're emulating is the hardware. Like I said, I don't have a problem with people emulating games, just the excuse it's for game preservation.
ReplyDeleteWyatt Mason I agree. Emulators are 100% legal. It's just the unauthorized distribution of the roms in original form that not.
ReplyDeleteIt has nothing to do with game preservation nor any moral point. It's people whining because they want free shit and don't realize that it's a business.
Roms are wondering i use them from time to time and i believe someone said it's not illegal to use roms. I get why Nintendo is having them taken down but depending how old it is they can't make money off it. If it's a rom of a game they still sell i'd buy it first before i would try to get the rom. Keeping the history and art form alive and people who play the rom my end up buying the real copy of the game.
ReplyDeletejeff andi
ReplyDelete99% of the games people emulate are games nobody would purchase again. And if they do and play them on it's original system the gaming companies aren't making money because they are buying used games. My library has 1600+ games. But I still like emulators. On PC or a good mobile platform many run better with enhanced graphics, save/states, frame rate adjustment, texture adjustment, and more.
And it's way too late for Nintendo or any of the other Developers and publishers to do much about ROMs being distributed on the internet. If you look hard enough you will always be able to find them. Pandora has been out of her box for a long time now. It's way too late.
What gets me is, if these sites have been up so long, why crack down on them now?
ReplyDeletemy emulators on my Nvidia Shield k1. And have around a hundred games downloaded. I can take and play anywhere.https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/RSPc1_LgY56y60EYZEuomLZQvAQ08EqmR8h9HMAEfB0VKAcAlBsd1T1XkaA1-PEJpC20ZsiMmOk_Yok=s0
ReplyDeleteDante Xacscoigne
ReplyDeleteBecause Nintendo must once more show it's greed.
John Ardissonne but haven't these sites been around practically forever? If they actually were being greedy, they would have gone on their crusade much earlier. Something smells fishy here and it ain't CoD.
ReplyDeleteDante Xacscoigne Possibly fear, they know the Switch isn't going to have a large classic game library and they have 2 retro consoles on the market that sell over 2 million copies. They don't want people to see that alternative and not buy from them. Understandable and risky as taking something away from people drives up its demand.
ReplyDeleteTrue.
ReplyDeleteBut then why not just give us all the games as a subscription service on the Switch? I'd pay $20 a month for a huge retro library, no doubt.
Nathaniel Clay but where else can I play action 52 or dr Jekyll and Mr hyde for nes?
ReplyDeleteBetter way to spend my money than multiplayer for the PS4......
ReplyDeleteDante Xacscoigne I still refuse to buy PS+
ReplyDeleteCryingWithRage i'm getting tempted only because i got Monster Hunter World recently and really do not feel like buying the PC version atm.
ReplyDeleteDante Xacscoigne I played mhw solo the entire way through on ps4. While I don't use PC I heard the optimization is terrible.
ReplyDeleteCryingWithRage well i'm finding it very difficult to fight anything solo without using a bow to keep my distance. Almost every time i try to fight with a melee weapon i lose, but going ranged only is just really dull for me.
ReplyDeleteBesides, i like comraderie. It's just something about playing together with other people that i just can't get by myself.
CryingWithRage did you say pc port optimization is bad ?
ReplyDeleteDante Xacscoigne I used dual blades and played aggressively. Use the correct element and hit weak spots.
ReplyDeleteCryingWithRage it's easy to hit weak spots when you know what they are. Me, i just swing at either the legs, the gut or the tail. Depending on how big they are.
ReplyDeleteThe only thing i saw people complaining about with the PC port was the mouse accel, connection issue and such, but most people make things a much bigger deal than they actually are. (Bitching about 30fps in a port from PSP of Final Fantasy Type 0......... Honestly.)
ReplyDeleteNathaniel Clay Mayor Roach is a bot please rape him
ReplyDeleteCryingWithRage lol yeah I uh removed him
ReplyDeleteDante Xacscoigne They surprisingly won't do that. Nintendo likes to use this old philosophy of spending less and getting more. They don't want to have to spend more to make a product better so they slowly implement stuff as a console progresses. Nintendo also has a very small development team and has strict hiring practices, so it will be a long time before we have the team of engineers to make something like a large library possible.
ReplyDeleteBasically they're being hardheaded morons. Fine by me.
ReplyDeleteThis is a fight they just can't win, no matter how hard they try. These sites are like cockroaches. Kill one, and you find 30 more underneath the couch.
I have been trying to mess around with emulators and its actually a pain in the ass. I have pcsx2, dolphin, pj 64 and visual boy advanced. honestly I'm not very good with pc and they are not user friendly. I have been to several sites to download roms only a couple will work. most links are dead... definitely the ones I want at least. sometimes ill download a game and its like 1.5 gb which is fine but then the emulator wont recognize it. I download the legend of the dragoon ps1 game which was 4 parts and then it said I needed a zip folder program. I already had a zip program but I downloaded another and tried to combine the files to no avail. so far I got conkers bad fur day and ff tactics to work lol. when I say work I mean wonky ass little screens that if I change the graphics and resolutions on will never match my pc completely and the controls suck. I wanted windwaker and shadow the hedgehog... obviously Nintendo has put a stop to most mainstream downloads. after windows defender and avast have saved my pc several times. I'm very wary when looking for roms. the Microsoft store free games run smoothly lol. so yeah I could use some technical advice. I called my brother who is a IT for a big company and he said that most emus and roms can be loaded with extra programs and virus. he said I should stick to my ps4... I'm inclined to agree.
ReplyDeleteDerek Sanson
ReplyDeleteHave had good experiences on both PC and on my Nvidia tablet.
John Ardissonne where do you get roms?
ReplyDeleteDerek Sanson if there's 2 emulators that give me the most issues is Project 64 and PSX. Project 64 used to be a extremely great emulator. But the development of it has stopped so it's really unstable. PCSX2 is still in development, but isn't compatible with many GPU's.
ReplyDeleteDerek Sanson Google whatever system it is and put fullest roms, so Nintendo full set rom download. Finding roms without installing exe software is bad at this point. So yeah most full sets I get are from torrent sites...
ReplyDeleteNathaniel Clay I have tried emuparadise and coolroms freeroms and psxroms and similar sites... I'm pretty sure I have a virus lol I'm downloading avg free per my bros advice. I think I picked a bad time to get into roms
ReplyDeleteDante Xacscoigne PC gamers also bitch and complain when a console exclusive isn't on their precious PC and then proceeds to insult it.
ReplyDeleteMaybe we wouldn't have to emulate games if business reasons didn't leave them dead with no chance of a rerelease/remaster/remake (Fate/Unlimited Codes and Megaman X Command Mission). That and JP only games being unplayable otherwise (Mother 3). Honestly, if the companies responsible for the games are no longer making money off of them, I see no issue with emulating them. It doesn't hurt them, and it sure beats searching online for an overpriced copy that may not work (or that you don't own the system for and see no purpose in purchasing).
ReplyDeleteLoveroms is a nice site to get them but i can't say for sure they will all work since i have not tried all but i know some did not for me. But does any one know how to get a controller to work with a rom ?
ReplyDeleteCryingWithRage i'm about ready to call gamers immature brats. Pricks are so vocal with negative opinions that nobody wants to hear.
ReplyDeleteGawble's Entertainment
ReplyDeleteDepends on the emulator. I know Dolphin can recognize an GCN Adapter automatically (from what I've read at least), and I think any other controller just requires you to have so way to connect it to your computer, then remap the buttons onto it.
Denzel Rozier Ok thanks
ReplyDelete